Do men objectify femdoms?

[nina]

Sure, the ways male doms dress might be more flexible but that's just appearances and I think another natural norm that occurs - men are expected to be masculine, strong and take control while women are expected to look attractive and be submissive. To me femdom breaks that mould and reverses things in many ways and personally that's one of the major reasons I find myself into it.

This is very interesting and I agree with most parts of what you say. My only minor point of disagreement is sexually objectifying is a little more demeaning (in absence of a better word) than stereotyping to have certain personality or physical traits.

Having said that I agree that female dominants (both kink and vanilla) break the mould that is set by traditional mindsets and are a positive influence in the society and thus reiterating that their empowerment comes from a place of mental power and dignity and isn't just appearance shallow (actually more of a specific fetish than mere appearance). However I do not personally think that with popularity in porn, given how they are portrayed there will encourage more females to explore femdom (and @piesocial made a good point about it), however exploring their freedom of sexual expression in the changing times will. And like you nicely ended it, I too hope with more and more people exploring femdom and discovering their individual styles, these stereotypes if any will fade out.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply

 

[Randomo]

I didn't think this would be going on so long but I'll throw in a bit more of my thoughts.

When it comes to how femdom are dressed versus how male doms are dressed, they are appealing to the market in which they are selling to. With Male Doms there isn't a uniform template they wear, but they're always muscular and have a six pack. The closest thing to a standard clothes is the 50 shades of grey suit and tie look. That's what women outside the kink community dream up when they think of a dom. And like I mentioned before with Femdoms, it's just that movie look that people think of when it comes to them.

My honest opinion is there is no such thing as objectification when it comes to kinks and porn. The point of it is to indulge/Express yourself in anyway that you choose. Kinks are a sexual art form that is creative in different ways. I find it ironic sometimes how often people will attack models about how they don't fit average standards. But essentially we are picking on them for the way they look. When I watch the Olympics, I don't get angry at these athletes that break world record are setting impossible standards for how fast I can swim.

I think I'm going off topic and I'm not say anyone is saying this or attacking anyone for their opinions. This is just my thoughts lol

 

[nina]

The point is not how people dress by choice which is actually great, they look cool dressed as that when they like the look and own it [or do it for their target market].

The point was, is the same expected as a standard from the rest of the femdoms as well who may not be into the fetish. It is not about women and their choices [irrespective of whether they are models or not], it is about men's expectations in reality and are they really influenced by porn. Also sports are standardized while kinks are personal where one size doesn't fit all so no question of set standards. The believers that one size fits all in kinks may be off-track and not the trend-setters. These are just my counter views.

And as a straight somewhat sexually submissive masochist female, maledom is my choice of porn and I have seen plenty of male actors who are far from toned. But I don't mind as a viewer, as that is not what is required to show they are dominant and in a position of power in the scene..lol

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I am also only sharing my personal thoughts and counter arguments, and seeking insights on whether this stereotyping really happens or not as I am not a male and wanted to understand their side on something I perceived.

While we may not agree with each other on opinions and have our individual point of views, I am still glad that this discussion has been carried on respectfully and without any flaming and credit goes to all that shared their views.

 

[Randomo]

The point was, is the same expected as a standard from the rest of the femdoms as well who may not be into the fetish. It is not about women and their choices [irrespective of whether they are models or not], it is about men's expectations in reality and are they really influenced by porn. Also sports are standardised while kinks are personal where one size doesn't fit all so no question of set standards. The believers that one size fits all in kinks may be off-track and not the trend-setters. These are just my counter views.

Gonna start off by saying that it's hard to convey tone in text so sorry if it come across as arguing lol don't mean it to be just friendly debating.

So for my model's example wasn't calling out women specifically, I didn't include gender cause I wanted to convey it happens with both male and female. But people in regards to people outside of the kink setting what they think is a standard isn't objectification then. Just a lack of knowledge of the full kink. I equate it to someone eating at Olive Garden thinking that's real Italian food. It's not their fault, that's just what they know it to be.

To me Objectification is thinking a person serves only one task to them like an object. Just because someone is uneducated in the kink shouldn't mean they are objectifying anyone. Standardizing yes, because that's all they know. And just like on the other side of it all, I'm sure women only think that Male Doms should only be the guy from 50 shades of grey.

Honestly, I think the perception of Male Dom is more dangerous then the perception of Femdoms in terms of standerization. Women can more easily stick to their principles as to how they want to Dom because more males out there wanting to be their subs (Not saying they will all be perfect) but you can stick to your style. Men will adjust and do what ever it takes to get a female sub. And if that means turning into what women think that means then yeah they'll do it. I feel most men are just more willing to abandon what they want to do and adapt.

 

[nina]

Gonna start off by saying that it's hard to convey tone in text so sorry if it come across as arguing lol don't mean it to be just friendly debating.

To me Objectification is thinking a person serves only one task to them like an object. Just because someone is uneducated in the kink shouldn't mean they are objectifying anyone. Standardizing yes, because that's all they know. And just like on the other side of it all, I'm sure women only think that Male Doms should only be the guy from 50 shades of grey.

Honestly, I think the perception of Male Dom is more dangerous then the perception of Femdoms in terms of standerization. Women can more easily stick to their principles as to how they want to Dom because more males out there wanting to be their subs (Not saying they will all be perfect) but you can stick to your style. Men will adjust and do what ever it takes to get a female sub. And if that means turning into what women think that means then yeah they'll do it. I feel most men are just more willing to abandon what they want to do and adapt.

Friendly debate from my end too I am sorry if I sounded like arguing at times, my intentions are only to share my personal views and have a good discussion.

You have a very good point about kink education there. However I feel we are using two different interpretations of the word objectification, you are talking about it in the sense of kinks [like forniphilia or bimbofication] which is positive thing, I am talking about [sexual] objectification in its vanilla meaning which is demeaning and being new or not educated about kinks is not an excuse for that.

Plus, I personally associate any form of objectification kink more with submission and the need to please someone but everyone has their individual preferences which is to be respected, however not imposed upon them as a standard.

Lastly you have introduced this new point in the discussion about new female subs who just like new male subs may be influenced adversely by porn and believe that it is alright to be treated that way and then they can be taken advantage of by some abusive person calling themselves a male dom. I agree with this point of yours to the best of my interpretation of your point.

However this interpretation again is making the female sub a potential victim [even though it is not great for the genuine male doms], just like expectations are from the femdom. While both men and women are burdened with expectations, somehow women seem more adversely affected in either roles. Now I could be biased as I can relate more to women issues but it does seem like a man's world. With more kink awareness and education, hope this changes for the better soon.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

Honestly, I think the perception of Male Dom is more dangerous then the perception of Femdoms in terms of standerization. Women can more easily stick to their principles as to how they want to Dom because more males out there wanting to be their subs (Not saying they will all be perfect) but you can stick to your style. Men will adjust and do what ever it takes to get a female sub. And if that means turning into what women think that means then yeah they'll do it. I feel most men are just more willing to abandon what they want to do and adapt.

This is something I have to take to task, while it may be true that a lot of newbie and wannabe "doms" will chop and change to do "what ever it takes" to catch a sub this certainly isn't the case with most experienced Doms. In fact part of the reason they find it so hard to find suitable female subs is that they are very strictly set in their ways and know what they like.

Sorry, getting off topic again there, lol...


But you also raised this idea of objectification of women in general and how this is translated into the stereotypical dominatrix image.
I think what @nina is discussing is the thinking that describes women in general only as sexualised objects. A good example of this is in the kind of speech guys use when talking about women such as "check out the tits on that!", not her but that.
The reason this particular subject about men in general objectifying Dommes is so tricky is that in this case a big part of that "uniform" is designed to accentuate sexuality almost inviting a degree of objectification. Which again leads back to the point about them playing to the stereotype.

No doubt about it, this topic is a veritable can of worms, lol...

 

[loserboy120]

Some men may have preferences regarding appearance, personally it isn't so much about the way she dresses, it's more about how she conducts herself that turns me on. If she can control me by shifting her tone of voice and using the correct amount of force then that's the turn on. She could be in a pair of joggers and a t-shirt, I couldn't care less. Although I think some women feel empowered by dressing up, especially if they're into tease and denial, kind of you can see me but you can't have me kind of thing "I hold power over you because you can't touch me unless I say".

 

[Doctor Pervert]

Although I think some women feel empowered by dressing up, especially if they're into tease and denial, kind of you can see me but you can't have me kind of thing "I hold power over you because you can't touch me unless I say".

This is a great point, here its not so much playing to the stereotype as using it as part of their teasing.

 

[natethegreat]

A true sub typically does not care about what their dom looks like as it is about the compatibility of the mind. Now that being said, some subs have fantasies/fetishes that revolve aeound societies idea of what is "hot" or "sexy".

So my answer to the person who started that thread is no. You are simply creating a stereotype.

I will mention though, being dominated by a hot young girl is extra humiliating for me. However being dominated by an older overweight man is equally humiliating in its own way.

So it depends on the persons kink and interests as you cannot define all subs or majority of subs as being into the same thing. Far from the truth.

 

[Watcher32]

Lurking around I have come across many submissive men talking about their femdom fantasies where the female dominant/top is always extremely sexy, always dressed very sexily and wears the highest heels, now I understand fantasies and there's nothing wrong in it.

But somehow these objectified physical traits have also made their way into general expectations and requirements sometimes reflected in ads seeking for femdoms as well. I may be wrong about my perceptions and that is the reason why I have made this thread to seek more insights.

I feel such expectations may be influenced from porn or paid services etc. idk and if one is really looking to experience submission in D/s dynamic with regular people then this false expectation is self defeating as this kind of objectification is actually subjugation of someone you want to submit to and just FYI heels that high aren't that comfortable. The reason why this topic crossed my mind was as a female sub I never objectified male doms or felt that to be a relevant factor to be considered but then that could just be me.

Again like I said, I do not believe this is always true for everyone and just wanted to gather some insights from all of you to gain some perspective on this. So share your thoughts on this topic and please don't attack me for posting this thread, pretty please..lol.

Late to the party in response but everyone is more attractive in porn or Hollywood. Like it or not their are general beauty standards throughout much of the world. Example symmetrical face is. In general Men are attracted to sexual features like large breasts and hips. Women to tall men with larger muscles. There are a host of evolutionary reasons for this. No one is saying Christian Grey (not endorsement but needed example of female “porn”) should gain 50 poinds, drop 3 inches, and hair start thinning out.



Or is it okay when women have ideal men?

 

[absolutekink]

Women are objectified by men in every walk of life, why would femdom be any different?

It's a valid discussion that needs to be had, even looking through this thread and it's being blatantly dismissed or positioned as 'she's playing up to it'.

By men, funnily enough. I'd like to hear from more women on this issue.

 

[kaylessa]

I'll also join late to the discussion.

I guess femdoms are objectified by themselves. I don't like gender bias, but most people seem to agree that men are more into "the looks" then females. So when a female wears revealing clothes, men seem to be encouraged to "want her" for sex. So I guess femdoms are playing with the minds of their submissives! The more the submissive wants physical contact to the femdom (which he probably never has), the more effective the domination I guess.

 

[Spd138]

Lurking around I have come across many submissive men talking about their femdom fantasies where the female dominant/top is always extremely sexy, always dressed very sexily and wears the highest heels, now I understand fantasies and there's nothing wrong in it.

But somehow these objectified physical traits have also made their way into general expectations and requirements sometimes reflected in ads seeking for femdoms as well. I may be wrong about my perceptions and that is the reason why I have made this thread to seek more insights.

I feel such expectations may be influenced from porn or paid services etc. idk and if one is really looking to experience submission in D/s dynamic with regular people then this false expectation is self defeating as this kind of objectification is actually subjugation of someone you want to submit to and just FYI heels that high aren't that comfortable. The reason why this topic crossed my mind was as a female sub I never objectified male doms or felt that to be a relevant factor to be considered but then that could just be me.

Again like I said, I do not believe this is always true for everyone and just wanted to gather some insights from all of you to gain some perspective on this. So share your thoughts on this topic and please don't attack me for posting this thread, pretty please..lol.

While I do agree many would be male slaves want a mistress to look sexy and dressed to the part, I would argue they are not true male slaves. They want the women to dress and look a certain way to feed their sexual desires. True femdom is about males meeting a women's needs not the other way around.

I would never ask or want my female Dom to dress or look a way to impress me because it's my job to please them. As long a personalities match and rules can be agreed on the man should not care what the womans physical appearance is. As for dress and grooming the women should do as she is comfortable and what makes her happy. If she wants to look sexy fine but if she wants to wear pjs or jogging pants then that's fine too. It's all about her not the man. The only time dress matter is for the man to make sure he is pleasing the women.

Male subs that deman a women look or dress a certian way are only about themselves and not a true sub

 

[kaylessa]

I don't really like the phrase "true sub" or "true XY" since probably all subs and all XYs are different. BDSM is about having fun together in a kinky way and in my perspective anything that makes the time great is allowed - as long as all parties involved are happy with the conditions.

 

[Xsamss]

For me id say its not that simple.

When someone has a fantasy its always the perfect stage, i mean you imagine an impressive girl doing exactly that dark thing you would probably wouldnt do in real life.

But when talking about real femdom you need to take care that it wont be perfect, its the difference about a fantasy and real life. Theres fantasyes i wouldnt do with a femdom untill there was a real relationship of trust, respect and i know she will do no real harm to me.

Same can be aplied to the dom, nobody expects a no limit sub or a slave that that does everything you ask from the get go. There needs to be a time to know eachother and find the place both are comfortable at and maybe push a bit when slave is not behaving.

Normally when you see a too perfect dom or sub its fake.

 

[nina]

A few fresh points to add to the discussion, lurking around the web I recently came across two articles that maybe relevant to this topic, also please note that atleast one of the articles primarily talks about professional dominatrix while this thread discussion is about femdom partners in real life. Again shows that pro dommes do seem to have these stereotypes and many [or atleast some] new or ignorant may read too much into porn or pro services to believe in them being regular norms for kinksters. I also vaguely remember reading somewhere how a professional dominatrix would blindfold a sub and then quickly change to a sweat shirt so she could have more air to breathe, more mobility to whip harder and then would change back to her costume [latex etc] before removing the blindfold of the sub client.
The issue is not about some finding it attractive for their partners or themselves to wear these, but the fact that the pro dommes generally sell a service to a customer and thus dress in a certain way to satisfy the customer's specific needs in exchange of consideration, however in a symbiotic real life relationship of that of a Domme-sub, the focus is to generally satisfy the Domme's needs and no matter what we say, the former [porn or pro services] seems to shape some perceptions for the latter [real world].
In a nutshell doing things for the sake of it or other reasons discussed like influence from porn or the pro services rather than being into it is what seems imposed rather than organic.

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[Chop13]

the whole Ds thing is up to the people who participate in it, everyone has their own thoughts, needs and limits. submitting is never a sign of weakness, its more of giving oneself to the Alpha completely, trusting them and doing everything you can to please them

 

[andrei]

I think we are talking about many other fetishes.
I voted undecided but I see femdom exactly as the name describes: simply female domination. When the male is not alpha anymore in a relationship but submissive or slave. Dominating the male is up to both his and her taste. That will include bondage, leather, foot fetish, breath play, cuckolding and other kinks combined getting me hornier while trying to remember.

 

[Chantal]

Im just gonna say that I think in general femdoms are objectified. Though I think that that may be since women in general are objectified very often. So why would femdoms make a difference here?

 

[andrei]

I just can't relate it to being objectified.
In porn I like the idea that the mistress is young because a young girl feels how to act like a perfect brat.
If the mistress is older it is another fantasy as being dominated by an ugly mistress for example, someone you hate but have to obey. Just sharing a little bit of fantasy.