Expanding exposure forums, interested?

[Doctor Pervert]

Exposing seems to be the big growth kink currently, indeed a huge percentage of new users come here just for that.

Currently we only have one forum dedicated to showing off, the "Show and Tell" section and all the variations of exposing get lumped in this one place.
I am currently seeking Expressions of Interest (EoI) about the idea of expanding the forum to cater better to the exposer and their needs.

As I see it there are two distinct categories in this, self exposers who simply want to show off their own photos and "proxy" exposers who post photos on someone else's behalf. In this second category it again falls broadly into two sections, willing exposure by those simply looking for someone to post on their behalf and enforced exposure, such as a forfeits for losing in games etc.

In both cases the biggest issue for the staff at Kink Talk is keeping track of who has consent to post what. In todays environment we do not want to fall foul of the law and find our site scrutinized and possibly shut down because of publishing photos without proper consent.
And this is where you come in, the exposing fans, its time to have your say.
What do you think about setting up additional forums for the differing types of exposing going on?
How should this be run and monitored, and most importantly who is going to run it?

Kink Talk has no paid staff, we donate our time to keeping this place clean and tidy and LEGAL. This all takes time and one of the most time consuming aspects is tracking consent for posted photos. Things such as, are the photos of a member, has that member verified and indicated they want their photos online? If not of a member who is it, can the poster verify they have permission, how do we know this is not an angry ex out for revenge?
And then there are the endless cat and mouse games with members who post they want to be exposed but then cry wolf and want their pics taken down.

Well now its up to you, I can facilitate expanding the services, adding forums and making exposing a bigger and more prominent part of Kink Talk BUT I need help. Specifically I need people willing to become mods for this new expanded forum.
To be clear these will not be general mods for the broader forum but will be restricted to policing and enforcing the rules of exposing.
This will not mean the new mods get to write the rules, they must be worked out prior to any changes being implemented, the mods will be charged with enforcing these rules. There will be certain conditions new mods will need to meet mostly to do with reliability and common sense.

Interested, so what do you do now?
Discuss this!
Convince me there is enough interest and enough people willing to run it properly and I will expand the Show and Tell to include whatever categories make sense. The mods will be appointed and then lets see what happens.

You can leave a response here or if you are more of a shy type pm me directly, this also applies if you think you'd make a good mod for the exposing forum.

 

[karabennemsy]

This sounds like a really great idea. Maybe allowing only verified members to post would help? Especially the forfeit/games part looks very promising for me.

 

[Slave572]

I think, in any case, someone will charge you a lawsuit.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

I think, in any case, someone will charge you a lawsuit.

So you think we should stop it completely?

 

[piesocial]

It's the minority that ruin it for everyone else. While this would be great it's also a touchy area that is probably best handled by not explicitly granting or denying people doing it either way. And relying on everyone to use common sense as much as possible.

 

[crazyashell21]

I understand that you would like to split it in 2 categories : self exposure and 'proxy' exposure. In proxy exposure, you would like to split this in 2 as well. I think it's a good idea.

What I suggest is also a third category for people who are looking for a Dom or a Sub, etc... (for exposure or not... It doesn't matter). This suggestion is mainly to remove the "seeking something" posts and put them in another category.

Now if we get back on the 2 categories you mentioned, in the self exposure we need to make sure that the exposer exposes himself/herself (in order to avoid law problems). For that I can see 2 different ways:
- For each new post with photos, a verification photo/video must be sent (doing a peace sign, touching nose with pinkie, etc...). The post should not be online unless the verification photo is verified by the mod or an admin of the website. This solution takes time and might frustrates the users as they have to wait for their post to be verified before being shown.
- the other idea would be to allow only verified members to post.

For 'proxy' exposure, you have the game section and the exposure of someone else. For the game section you can ask for a message of consent before exposure (they must agree to be exposed when they decide to play the game).
For the exposure of someone else, they should provide a screenshot or anything that proves that they are allowed to share the media. The verification of the proof must be done by a mod. It will take time but at least you avoid law problems.

 

[crazyashell21]

So you think we should stop it completely?

I don't think you should stop it. Plus a lawsuit can be avoided if you have proof of the exposed person's consent. You can have that with the ideas I gave earlier

 

[crazyashell21]

It's the minority that ruin it for everyone else. While this would be great it's also a touchy area that is probably best handled by not explicitly granting or denying people doing it either way. And relying on everyone to use common sense as much as possible.

I do understand your concerns and you make a valid point. The problem with people using common sense is that you will always have someone who will break the law by exposing someone else without consent... That's the point of @Slave572 with the lawsuit. I do agree though that this is a touchy area as you say. Unfortunately, I think some decisions must be taken by the admins on that regard for them to avoid a lawsuit.

 

[gbdare]

I like the idea of expanding the options for the exposure kink, but as others have said it's a dicey business at best. I think to be on the safe side you'd have to institute some pretty rigorous confirmation procedures for anyone posting exposure in which the subject was identifiable (pictures with face, full name, or other identifying information) before the exposure went "live". For example, in addition to something like a picture holding a crumpled (harder to photoshop) piece of paper with their signed consent, I'd suggest having something like a live video conversation via kik, skype, etc. with a moderator getting a verbal confirmation of consent along with seeing the person and his or her photo ID (to confirm both identity and age) before anything is posted. I know that may seem like a huge burden for both Kinktalk and the people being exposed, but there's just too many idiots out there who are posting revenge porn and such to not be that rigorous. It may be more trouble than it's worth.

Another option is to not allow any full names or identifying information at all and anything with the subject's face in it would require additional verification, such as a signed consent picture as discussed above before it could be posted.

One other option that comes to mind is to make all picture posts delete-able by anyone so if someone discovers something posted without consent or they changed their mind, they can remove it without any delay (and without them being able to complain that they couldn't get it taken down in a timely manner). Sure, some posts might get deleted that those involved didn't want taken down, but that's a minor concern as compared to the opposite scenario.

As far as participation, I'd be willing to be a moderator for the exposure section as long as I feel like the procedures are adequate to steer clear of legal issues for the most part.

 

[kaylessa]

I love exposure kink and I often dream of myself being exposed. That said, I'd never let that happen in real life - at least if I can. I do love to expose others though.

 

[BamaSwitch]

It is a kink of mine although I'd only let the exposure to go so far. That being said, I love the thought of expanding the forums but fully realize the precarious risk of doing so. Too many times I've seen similar sites shut down for something similar. It only takes one person exposed against their will and an attorney to have this site go away with possible other liabilities.

The sad truth is that for someone to risk exposure they almost must be willing to totally exposed by providing proof of id. This is more than those that like to dance around the edges of exposure (like myself) are willing to do.

In summary, I love the thought of expanding and refining this area of the forums but don't have a good solution of how to do so. As far as helping to manage, I personally don't the time to commit to such an opportunity.

Good luck and thanks for the work you already put in!

 

[Doctor Pervert]

As most here seem to realise the major problem is ensuring that there is clear consent given and that this should be shown or linked to every time someone posts exposing photos.
Now lets be clear the real problem is with photos (or photo sets) that include face pictures, an anonymous body part or headless torso in general isn't going to be identifiable so is a much lower risk.
The idea is to protect you (and others) from fraudulent use of your photos or them being used in "revenge porn" scenarios or for stalking. Recent developments in facial recognition systems make it quite easy to identify and find a person based on just one reasonably clear face photo.
To this end it is the face pics we need to protect.

If you are willing to expose your face then there shouldn't be a problem providing a consent photo that includes it.
So my idea for the format for consent notice photos is,

• A clear, large format photo that includes at least a full, unobscured face to shoulders.
• Must include Kink Talk user name
• Must include date
• Must include the words "I consent to my naked photos being exposed online" or similar.
• The above must be hand written on paper or on the body of the person.

Now the next problem is how to organize and store these consent photos so people can quickly refer to them.
One way this might work is maintain a separate media category for consent photos similar to the verification media category.
For self exposers a one off consent photo is all that is required, this could then be added as a link in any future albums posted as a "Check my consent" in the description.
For proxy exposers the best method would be to add the consent photo as the first in any album they post, but if they are posting lots of the same person over time a link back to the original will keep things simple. Either way a copy kept in the consent section would make referencing easy.

All referencing should be done using the KT name only, never the persons real name.
All photos including these consent photos must NEVER include any real ID.
Full name, phone numbers, address, facebook profile links etc are expressly forbidden.

It would then be up to the new mods to keep track of this ensuring anyone who posts has a linked consent and if anyone deletes their consent photo(s) all linked albums already posted must also then be deleted.
And this is where I see the most difficult part, keeping track as people post and delete will require constant attention.

I know some people will worry about photoshop fakes but its really not difficult that to tell and if the mods have any doubt they can reject it and demand another.

 

[kaylessa]

All referencing should be done using the KT name only, never the persons real name.

For proxy exposers we probably need a way to proof consent for persons who aren't a member of KT, e.g. it's common practice on gD to link to KT for pictures not allowed there. There might also be situation in which the exposed person neither has a KT nor a gD username.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

This is a good point, in cases where the person doesn't hold an account on gD or KT we may have to use first name as supplied or something similar?

 

[Slave572]

I think you need to consult a lawyer specializing in sexual offenses.

Western European and United States countries have a sexual consent law. This law requires consent to sexual contact and requires stopping sex in the process (after consent in the process). This means you should have instructions (manual) on how to stop the exposure of sexual images. This instructions (manual) should be presented a user for review everytime before downloading sexual images. This instruction should be developed together with a lawyer. Because you have to prove to the judge that the user knew how to remove the exposure of his own photos.

I think that the lawyer will indicate to you and other points that you must fulfill in order to fulfill the law.

 

[Cstelle]

This is a good point, in cases where the person doesn't hold an account on gD or KT we may have to use first name as supplied or something similar?

Another way of approaching this whole thing might be to stress that KT is not a photo dump site. That it is about members, by members, for members (and lurkers ). A community thing - as in... suppose all photos would have to be of (known) KT members?

I know, this would kick out aus guy's (SUPER FUN! DO JOIN!) Exposure Raffle, and other fun things, but... who knows... it might also encourage people to join KT? (Or maybe there is a technically easy way to include gDareans?)

Anyway, this is not a Suggestion, merely an unchewed lump of... the stuff cows chew on.

 

[kaylessa]

A community thing - as in... suppose all photos would have to be of (known) KT members?

While I do understand the reasoning behind, I tend to disagree with you. KT is a community, but in case of proxy exposure I would think the proxy is supposed to be a member (which would be true) and not necessarily the exposed person. This is not meant as an offense and is only my 2 cent as one member of many.

Edit: Also if I proxy expose somebody on KT I always share the link afterwards - which might encourage people to join; especially since I always choose albums to only be visible to members.

 

[Cstelle]

Also if I proxy expose somebody on KT I always share the link afterwards - which might encourage people to join; especially since I always choose albums to only be visible to members.

Oh, that's good!

 

[andrei]

I wonder what was the story behind temporarily.exposed. I think the admins can still be contacted for an opinion.
Something went wrong there, something to learn from. Or they just got scared of legal implications and quit.

 

[jh81]

I think the that as long as KT takes reasonable precautions and responds promptly on any abuse report then I think it should be fine. After all, what is the difference between uploading to KT, than to XTube, XHamster, ImageFap and others.

So I suggest the following:

• Board for self-exposure
  This is for people who just want to show themselves. Images must be of - and only of - the person posting
• Board for group or proxy exposure
  This is for people who post pictures containing themselves and others, or just others. Images that contain identifying marks or faces must have proof of consent of exposure.
• Board for Exposure Games
  This board is for people who want to play games where one or more of the participants are obligated to complete a forfeit/upload/etc. This is for playing games rather than just posting pictures for kicks
• Board for Exposure Discussion
  No pictures; just for chat.

With the following rules:

• Any image can be flagged as "This is me; I didn't consent" (or other such flag). The image is immediately removed from public view and put into a moderation queue.
• If a user has a number of images in the moderation queue each month (say 3/28 day period), they are banned from posting and must explain to a moderator how they got permission to post before having their privileges reinstated
• Images which had "I consent" messages in the picture (or in the picture set) are considered acceptable, and are suitable proof that the uploader had permission at the time of upload, and no further action is taken.
• If the withdrawal of consent is credible (that is not a troll trying to get pics taken down) then they are deleted and are not shown again