Thoughts on submission

[J91]

Thoughts on submission

Note: When going through personal issues, I find it comforting to write about anything in particular. These are random thoughts which I may or may not revisit/add to at a later date.

What does submission mean?

In the recent absence of any rules or regulations on my sexual activities, I have been reflecting on what submission actually means to me and why it's important. I have only submitted to other females. I'm mostly more attracted to females but I also find that they are more in tune with the emotional aspects of subbing. In my time as a sub, which has been about four years now, the best Dommes have openly recognised and used the emotional reliance in a positive manner. There has been a mutual understanding that as a sub, I will need to devote my mind just as much as, if not more than, my body. And in actual fact, it's the mental willingness and submission that is the most important aspect of the relationship. That can only come with communication and trust, built on a solid foundation of friendship.

Once a sub has willingly submitted in her mind, the rest will come naturally. There are certain times, and not too often, where I have been able to carry out instructions without even so much as a second thought because my dedication is so intense. There are times where I have given personal information, and ignored the rational thoughts that should stop such behaviour, all due to the extent of mental control my Domme had over me. What is exceptional, is when you know that this hold doesn't get abused or manipulated. The genuine desire to please extends beyond all play sessions into an everyday dynamic.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

... What is exceptional, is when you know that this hold doesn't get abused or manipulated. The genuine desire to please extends beyond all play sessions into an everyday dynamic.

Wow, that is a great first post, very insightful.

On that last point I will add from a Doms perspective on why I feel this hold aspect is so crucial.
To me that is the most central point of the trust in the relationship, when you have reached the point where a sub has become so dependent on you, wants to please you so badly that you could ask for just about anything knowing they would try to do it. This is precisely when you can feel that trust they have placed in you as a tangible thing, when your responsibility for them and their welfare is at its highest and when you must be most careful not to abuse that power, that trust.

 

[J91]

Thank you for your response. I completely agree with your comment, but that level of awareness is difficult to find. It's particularly hard when Dominants don't understand that that feeling can't be switched on and off at will, especially when looking at the end of a relationship. The complete absence of that particular person, I've found, gets very difficult to handle when the submission was so deep to begin with. I've had one Domme tell me that she believes in ensuring the welfare of her subs beyond the duration of the relationship, which is impressive and very dedicated of her.

Wow, that is a great first post, very insightful.

On that last point I will add from a Doms perspective on why I feel this hold aspect is so crucial.
To me that is the most central point of the trust in the relationship, when you have reached the point where a sub has become so dependent on you, wants to please you so badly that you could ask for just about anything knowing they would try to do it. This is precisely when you can feel that trust they have placed in you as a tangible thing, when your responsibility for them and their welfare is at its highest and when you must be most careful not to abuse that power, that trust.

 

[nina]

It's particularly hard when Dominants don't understand that that feeling can't be switched on and off at will, especially when looking at the end of a relationship. The complete absence of that particular person, I've found, gets very difficult to handle when the submission was so deep to begin with.

I agree with you on this, for submission that deep once given, there is no button to unsubmit and you can't help it. Disappearance or complete absence of the (ex)-dominant in such cases makes the sub even more emotionally vulnerable. I feel a sustained friendship or some contact to continue for the foreseeable/near future or at least a phased exit where the dependency and contact gradually subside may help the sub move on with their life. But even then, at some subconscious level the submissive mindset persists provided there has been no major breach of trust.

 

[J91]

It's nice to know that there are others that share the same opinion. There's a difference between caring when you are effectively getting something from the sub and caring for their own good - it shows that the submission was taken seriously. There are too many people that have done a disappearing act when the sexual aspect of a relationship has stopped, which really shows some degree of naivety towards the depth of submission.

I agree with you on this, for submission that deep once given, there is no button to unsubmit and you can't help it. Disappearance or complete absence of the (ex)-dominant in such cases makes the sub even more emotionally vulnerable. I feel a sustained friendship or some contact to continue for the foreseeable/near future or at least a phased exit where the dependency and contact gradually subside may help the sub move on with their life. But even then, at some subconscious level the submissive mindset persists provided there has been no major breach of trust.

 

[nina]

It's nice to know that there are others that share the same opinion. There's a difference between caring when you are effectively getting something from the sub and caring for their own good - it shows that the submission was taken seriously. There are too many people that have done a disappearing act when the sexual aspect of a relationship has stopped, which really shows some degree of naivety towards the depth of submission.

Like submission can have dimensions (whether it is just sexual or also an emotional connect, sometimes also extends to an intellectual connect), in the same way domination has those dimensions too. Submission and Domination are like equal and opposite forces so just like you as a sub need both sexual and emotional aspect in the relationship there are dominants who need both as well to be able to connect with you at the same deep level. If one of you has one dimension lacking in their style that the other has, then there is an imbalance.

This is where compatibility comes in, so if a sub needing both aspects is with a dominant who only wants "to effectively get something" and does not "care for the subs own good" like you mention then they are with a dominant whose domination is limited to the sexual aspect only and the sub in such cases will always find something (that connect) missing. I call this incompatibility. Of course finding compatible partners is something easier said than done.

And a dominant who has emotionally invested at the same level will also need time to get over the sub or be equally interested in maintaining some friendly contact after the termination of the D/s dynamic imo and that too for their own sake and not just as a favour extended for the welfare of the sub. After all even with the D/s aspect, it is still a relationship between two people.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

After all even with the D/s aspect, it is still a relationship between two people.

And this right here is the key!
We are PEOPLE, this isn't a video game to be played without regard for consequences. A lot of the stupid ideas and tasks posted remind me of someone playing a game where they run around shooting everyone, friend and foe alike, they don't care what happens they just run amok blasting everything in sight.
Just because this is "online" doesn't diminish your responsibility to behave properly, people you meet online are still people. They deserve courtesy and respect, they deserve to be treated with care.
BDSM is not about cruelty, abuse or neglect in fact a good D/s relationship is the exact opposite. When a submissive places her trust in you, you have the awesome responsibility to uphold that trust by keeping her safe and secure both physically and emotionally.

To help ensure this happens always be clear about how much time you can invest, how committed you are willing to become and don't raise expectations that you can't keep. Be truthful about your experience level and don't treat her as your experimental guinea pig, if you haven't tried or tested something yourself don't expect her to test it for you! Some of the ideas I have seen make my skin crawl, dangerous, even potentially deadly things that hopefully most people will ignore.
But its not only physical health you need to be aware of, mental health is vitally important too. This means making sure you don't just disappear mid relationship, often online relationships can become very intense and a real reliance build. It also means understanding that most submissive's have an innate want to please and treating them harshly or critically can sometimes wound them far more than any physical punishment.

Above all remember that the name and avatar you chat with is a real person, they're not a character in a game, you can't just press "reset" if you fuck them up.

 

[J91]

This is where compatibility comes in, so if a sub needing both aspects...

Above all remember that the name and avatar you chat with is a real person, they're not a character in a game, you can't just press "reset" if you fuck them up.

Thank you both for sharing your views. I do think, as you mentioned Nina, that compatability is most definitely an important consideration. Having been a sub online for the most part of the last four years, I have realised that as much as you may like someone as a person, being able to submit to them is a completely different issue, and attention to what both parties want or need from the relationship is extremely important. I very recently got out of a dynamic where most of the time I felt like she was trying to please me, as opposed to the other way round. Communication was a huge issue, meaning that we couldn't quite move forward from that point. Having said that, it can be quite a difficult thing to bring up to a potential play partner. You would hope that any kind of emotional connection and a Dominant/submissive mindset would grow organically and develop throughout the relationship.

I do definitely think that meaningful relationship of this kind can form online, but as you mentioned Doc, some people do tend to forget that they are interacting with a real person who has real feelings and emotions. All too often, on here and gD, I see too many interactions where people are so obviously hiding behind their devices. This is why I guess many people, me included, prefer to lurk around as opposed to get involved.

 

[nina]

I have realised that as much as you may like someone as a person, being able to submit to them is a completely different issue, and attention to what both parties want or need from the relationship is extremely important. I very recently got out of a dynamic where most of the time I felt like she was trying to please me, as opposed to the other way round. Communication was a huge issue, meaning that we couldn't quite move forward from that point. Having said that, it can be quite a difficult thing to bring up to a potential play partner. You would hope that any kind of emotional connection and a Dominant/submissive mindset would grow organically and develop throughout the relationship.

Wow, a fresh take on compatibility indeed. In fact as someone who has been exploring domination only since the past 1-2 years and being someone who needs to emotionally connect at a deeper level to be able to care for the sub, striking a balance in between the power exchange quotient and the relationship/emotional aspect is something I am still learning (slightly challenging given that I am a very considerate person personality wise, but hopefully something I can overcome with experience and my emphasis on proactive communication) so that the D/s mindset also grows organically with time and does not get stagnant and secondary to the relationship.

All too often, on here and gD, I see too many interactions where people are so obviously hiding behind their devices. This is why I guess many people, me included, prefer to lurk around as opposed to get involved.

Never seen you on gD, is your username the same as here.. anyways sites like these are also a good platform to discuss with the like minded genuine people, once we have the patience to filter out the many meaningless threads and find some good discussions to respond to..lol. At least I enjoy reading your very thoughtful posts and hope to read more

 

[Doctor Pervert]

I very recently got out of a dynamic where most of the time I felt like she was trying to please me, as opposed to the other way round.

This is another excellent point and probably worthy of its own thread!
I think every Dom(me) at some stage has been guilty of following the play rather than leading it to some degree. It can be difficult to balance in online relationships with considerations like timezones, different schedules and so on making it very easy to slip into a mode of providing your sub with things you know she will be able to do and/or like rather than following your own agenda.
This is very different from "topping from the bottom" where a sub intentionally tries to steer the play.
In this instance the sub can become dissatisfied because although she may be getting what she likes she isn't getting what she needs which is to be challenged and surprised. Without a goal to strive for she cannot reach that sense of achievement, to be able to say "look, I did it!" and be praised for that effort.

 

[J91]

So that the D/s mindset also grows organically with time and does not get stagnant and secondary to the relationship.

Well I think this is what has been the issue previously. Having started a non D/s relationship first then trying to incorporate some aspects into the relationship didn't necessary work. Having done it the other way round mostly, where a sort of friendship forms but with a view to progressing to a D/s relationship eventually, has worked much better in my experience. But then again, each relationship and each situation is different. As you said, the balance needs to be on proactive communication, otherwise there is likely to be an imbalance. It's very difficult to find the right person for all of this to happen as it needs to.

Yes I am on gD, would rather not share my username publicly but I'm happy to give more details over PM. I haven't been particularly active on either sites but more used them as a way to meet people and stalk some threads...!

This is another excellent point and probably worthy of its own thread!
I think every Dom(me) at some stage has been guilty of following the play rather than leading it to some degree.

Indeed! This is so very accurate. But it's a very contentious issue and extremely difficult to raise with any Dom/me for fear of 'shattering the illusion' so to speak. Like all other matters, it comes down to communication and discussing from the offset what the expectations of the relationship. There's is nothing more awful than feeling like someone doesn't really want to do something and is only partaking for your sake - it makes the whole experience not enjoyable.

 

[nina]

Well I think this is what has been the issue previously. Having started a non D/s relationship first then trying to incorporate some aspects into the relationship didn't necessary work. Having done it the other way round mostly, where a sort of friendship forms but with a view to progressing to a D/s relationship eventually, has worked much better in my experience. But then again, each relationship and each situation is different. As you said, the balance needs to be on proactive communication, otherwise there is likely to be an imbalance. It's very difficult to find the right person for all of this to happen as it needs to.

I totally agree and can relate to what you say. It is difficult for an already existing friendship to progress into an effective D/s without a strong resolve to move in that direction equally matched by motivated efforts from both the Dom(me) and the sub as there are greater chances of taking each other for granted and lacking initiative. It is indeed very difficult to find the right one and mostly we just find a close match and adapt to make it work unless we are extremely lucky.

Yes I am on gD, would rather not share my username publicly.

I have made a guess based on my perceptive lurking, just for curiosity will pm you that to know if it is correct